Wednesday, October 26, 2011
POE and HAWTHORNE: Psychological Puzzles?
After reading "The Black Cat" by Edgar Allan Poe and "Young Goodman Brown" by Nathaniel Hawthorne, we are left with a sense of the supernatural which is characteristic of some literature born during the American Romantic period. Make a comparison, using quotations from both of the short stories, of some of the elements of the supernatural and explain how they advance the meaning of the stories. Can the authors be considered psychological enigmas? Explain. Write between 1/2 page to 3/4 page; respond to two of your peers' posts by Friday at midnight.
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Edgar Allen Poe and Nathaniel Hawthorne are two of the greatest Gothic writers of the American Romantic period. They both write using their knowledge of the psychological senses of human actions. They frequently use the supernatural to help drive their point and move the story along. In “The Black Cat”, Poe uses a black cat as the cause of all the main character’s misfortune. This follows along the age old superstition of never let a black cat cross your path. Poe even says in the book that the character’s wife made constant pokes at, “the ancient popular notion, which regarded all black cats as witches in disguise.” Yet he still goes and causes the cat harm which begins about his slow demise. Then in “Young Goodman Brown”, the main character is similarly faced with his demise because of this magical superstition. This local cult or almost black magic like group of townspeople gather and Goodman Brown and his wife Faith are to join them. In the story they speak about the Salem witch trials. Even before Brown arrives at the meeting place he is experiencing this sinister charm. The traveler, that looks like Goodman Brown Senior, and his walking stick that “wriggles itself like a living serpent” constantly gives the reader a feeling of insecurity. This notion is only verified when Brown’s old catechist cries out, “The devil!” when the traveler touches her neck with his staff, and he calmly replies “Then Goody Cloyse knows her old friend?” His retort, their conversation of potions and a missing broom, and the transaction of him letting her borrow his staff with a speedy getaway all link up to a rather strange conception of the two. A common thread in these two stories is their supernatural tendencies and reference to witches. I believe that Poe and Hawthorne can be considered psychological enigmas because they can be hard to follow. They are not difficult in the sense that they can’t be understood; rather you can’t always know where the story will lead to in the end. I often find myself making up my own predestined ending for the character sometimes my ending is better than theirs and other times it is the reverse. I find it a great way to get involved in the book and the writer’s head. These two do a very good job leading us along their mystical path of unforeseen happenings and events. You can really lose yourself in the mind of their tragically confused character.
ReplyDeleteThe Black Cat and Young Goodman Brown both compare because they deal with a story with supernatural beings. In The Black Cat, Poe’s wife relates it to the superstition and “made frequent allusion to the ancient popular notion, which regarded all black cats as witches in disguise.” People consider black cats as witches and in this story Poe was in an angry fit and hung the cat, much like the witches were hung in Young Goodman Brown. Poe feared the cat, “the terror and horror with which the animal inspired me,” although the cat really had not done anything wrong he still was angered by it, he was afraid of the cat. This compares to the witches in Young Goodman Brown, the “witches” may not have been anything but regular people like Faith. So, they were both killed, Faith and the cat, even though they really didn’t do anything. Poe referred to the cat as a, “hideous beast whose craft had seduced me into murder,” as people sometimes blamed the witches for casting their “evil magic” upon them. In Young Goodman Brown the staff, “bore the likeness of a great black snake,” usually a sign of the serpent, the devil. Later in the story a lady cried, “The devil,” when she was touched by the, end of the staff, the serpents tail. All the evidence of the supernatural make the story more interesting and spooky. It challenges logical thinking that these things do not exist. Yes, the authors can be considered as psychological enigmas because they write of the supernatural that nobody really understands. The “personality” of these stories, the spooky and creepy and supernatural, matches up with the creepiness of Poe but you may not think to hear this form a story with “goodman” in the title. These are enigmas because you don’t know if you should believe them or not and in the process getting confused between what is reality and what is supernatural. Both these authors did a good job in keeping the readers attention, putting the reader in the character’s shoes, and making them think of the un-normal and supernatural.
ReplyDeleteMaura: You brought out the conversation of the brooms and the potions, I almost forgot about this but this REALLY points to the fact that truly believed there were witches around them. I also believe that these stories, especially Poe’s, are hard to follow, not for reading, but you really do not expect what happens at the end.
Elizabeth, you made a good point about the witches being regular people. Also that people blamed the witches for casting spells on them. However, Faith wasn’t killed she died of old age shortly after Goodman Brown died. In addition, the only witches that were killed in the story were those that Brown said his father had pointed out in the Salem witch trials. The whole town was full of witches as you can see at the gathering in the field. I do like your statement “It [the evidence of the supernatural] challenges logical thinking that these things do not exist.” I agree that it does make it more interesting and spooky.
ReplyDelete“The Black Cat” and “Young Goodman Brown” are both great pieces of work from the period of American Romanticism. Both of these stories are stories that keep you on the edge of your seat and make you afraid of the dark. When reading the stories you get a very uneasy feeling that something bad is going to happen or that there is an evil force at work. This feeling was something that developed largely in the writings of American Romanticism. In “The Black Cat” Poe grabs the reader’s attention when he says “The fury of a demon instantly possessed me.” This foreshadows some events that are to come. When we read this line we think of th fury that is associated with demons and the evil that will come because of it. After he has killed his cat and seen the err shape of the cat of the wall, he is haunted by yet another black cat. This cat this cat had a white stop in the shape of the “…GALLOWS.” This is a very supernatural part of the book. All of these supernatural occurring lead back to the begging of the story when his wife stated, “…all black cats are riches in disguise.” After reading the book these statements makes readers ponder the tales about black cats, could the superstition be true?
ReplyDeleteHawthorne does a great job of also creating the eerie feeling of the supernatural. It all starts out when Young Goodman Brown enters the woods. The woods are a great place for the supernatural to occur. When Goodman Brown describes how people could be lurking in the shadows of the deep woods it gives the reader a nerves feeling. Just like in “The Black Cat” Hawthorne also uses a reference to the devil to help give the supernatural feeling. “With heaven above and Faith below, I will yet stand firm against the devil.” It shows how evil, such a powerful spirit, will have to be fought off. “The cry of grief rage and terror was yet piercing the night…” The mentioning of many voices and whispers throughout the story, and the imagining of things also adds to the supernatural realm of the story. Whispers and unknown sounds make things seem so much scarier because they give us the feeling of unknown. At the end of the story Hawthorne describes the deaths of some of the characters, “And when he had lived long and borne to his grave a hoary corpse…” Death adds to the sense of evil and supernatural feeling because death is something scary, and the unhappy dead are thought to come back and haunt the world with their angry spirits.
Both of the stories portray evil, but both do so in different ways. Poe shows the evil in the mind of a man who has gone mad. A man full of anger who is haunted by the supernatural. And Hawthorne shows it by the voices imagery he uses, such as the woods and the serpents. Both also use death to portray the true evil of the world.
Edgar Allan Poe and Nathaniel Hawthorne could be considered as mad. But what is mad exactly? Is mad the definition of someone who goes completely insane? Or is it someone who has enough ambition and courage to dwell into the human mind and pull out the threads in the dark recesses? And who classifies the mad? Those one's that lack that ambition? Or those who are what they consider "stable?" And if one is it those that are perceived as mad always claim themselves as sane does that constitute them as mad? Am I mad for trying to understand what makes a person mad? I may very well be, but I admire the bravery of both of these writers as they take the psychological side of the mind and tear it to fragments to be examined by those "sane."
ReplyDeleteBoth of these stories -"The Black Cat" and "Young Goodman Brown"- both seem to revolve around some sort of magic. "The Black Cat" is based entirely upon two black cats in the story, and how they drive the narrator to murder and deceit. "Young Goodman Brown" is then based upon his surrounds of dark magic and supernatural witchery like the Salem witch trials.
Another similarity between the two stories is their talk of a tomb. The narrator in "The Black Cat" says at the very end "I walled up the monster in the tomb!" This "tomb" is relating to either the physical structure of the wall in which he put his dead wife, or to the tomb being his own madness. The "monster" relating to the actual cat, or more importantly to himself. It states how he walled himself up in his own madness, which called his eventual demise. The "tomb" in "Young Goodman Brown" could be considered as when Goodman Brown becomes "a stern, a sad, a darkly meditative, a distrustful, if not a desperate man." He sort of sets himself up for death when he becomes overwhelmed with the thoughts of the witch trials and supernatural magic. His tomb could be considered his self suppression into these dark thoughts.
Poe and Hawthorne could be considered enigma writers because they really make the reader think about what is happening. The stories may be hard to follow at times, leaving the reader thinking "okay Poe, where are you going with this?" But I admire this greatly. I think it is commendable to try to puzzle the readers with something this dark and psychological, and gained them much prestige as a writer. Which leads me say I think I'd like very much to go mad.
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ReplyDeleteMaura,
ReplyDeleteI really enjoy how you matched evil with both of the characters demises. They are both so true. Especially in “The Black Cat.” Evil is what lead him to do all of the unthinkable things. He even admitted this very early in the book. That a demon is what possessed him to act the way he did. Alcohol plays a huge role in the demon that takes over his body. This story is a fable, but unfortunately alcohol is a real life demon for so many people. When I read this part of the book it made me think of the story of baby Lisa that is in the news. A young baby is missing and at the time of her disappearance her mother was under the influence. The police fear the worse, that her mother may have taken Lisa’s life while under the influence that night and is unable to remember. This story was in my head the whole time. Poe made this story out of pure imagination, but unfortunately this could become a harsh reality for those closest to baby Lisa. This shows just how much the real world can be like the supernatural one.
These two works are truly Romantic adventures. We are thrown into each of these and feel what the character feels, thinks what the character thinks. When superstition and topics such as witch craft come into play it throws a curve ball into how we deal with such dilemmas. These two themes are different but lead the reader to question things, nonetheless.
ReplyDelete"The Black Cat" deals more with superstition and such an entity coming back to life. The narrator experiences this demented follower that consumes his life. He transforms from a docile, amiable man then, after the unthinkable deed, into a crude, scornful persecutor. The narrator states "experienced a radical alteration for the worse." (79) This deed that occurred transformed his life, "the fury of a demon instantly possessed me." (79) Without this demon, this Gothic tale would not have the same essence. The narrator is changed because of his ordeal.
In "Young Goodman Brown", we, the reader, encounter the devil himself. We then know his dementing, luring powers. This devilish man compliments him and questioned him. He insists for Goodman to take his staff, "take my staff, if you are so soon weary." (54) At the end, Goodman does not trust anyone (for the remainder of his life). He was dreary, "for his dying hour was gloom"(64) His ordeal with the devil, whether true or not, changed his opinion of life as he knew it.
Without superstition, witchcraft, and the devil these tales could not have existed. These complex ideas add to the general Gothic tone of these Romantic masterpieces. These themes tease our thoughts and make us wonder if what we see is really true...
Sophie,
ReplyDeleteI also thought of the mentioning of the tombs when I read this blog. Unfortunately I did not put them in my blog. But I am very glad you did because looking at the double means of this word give it a so much eerier feel. When I think of a tomb I think of a dark dirty place, full of cobwebs and spiders all things that I am afraid of. But I never really think of it as a human mind. I think that everyone had had an experience when their minds were tombs to their own dreams. I tend to do this on some very important test. I think so much that I over think and confuse myself. My mind which had helped me learn so much plays tricks on me and becomes a tomb for my idea of getting a great grade. The use of the word tomb adds a very eerie feeling and when you look to the meaning behind it you can really feel the supernatural feeling to it.
Edgar Allen Poe and Nathaniel Hawthorn are the best when it comes to making your head spin as you read their short, but amazing stories. These two stories really grab hold of how the supernatural played a role in this period of American Romanticism. When writing a story that points towards the supernatural the writer can be as creative and bizarre as possible and the reader will stay interested in the story because we have an attraction to forces that we do not understand. Now, this is one point I would like to make about the two authors. I believe that it is not the ability to create supernatural feelings that makes these authors great, but rather it is their ability to understand how to make it appealing to the average reader. These two stories to not consist of anything really out of this world, Edgar Allen Poe's "The Black Cat" is a story about a crazy man who commits a murder, something that happens almost daily in our lives. A story about a crazy man murdering his wife could not become a classic like this story has though. Poe finds a way to make hints toward the supernatural that make his story much more involved than just a simple murder, this is exactly the trait I was talking about earlier. Now Hawthorne's story is also about something that could've happened during the time of the Salem Witch Trials, but he also puts spins that point towards a supernatural source that makes us continue to read and think hard. For example as I began to read Hawthorne's Yound Goodman Brown I was somewhat bored and wondered why I was reading a story of two men walking through the woods. Then Hawthorne makes it so, "... and, looking down again, beheld neither Goody Cloyse nor the serpentine staff, but his fellow traveler alone.." now we start to think about supernatural effects. It adds to the story that there is an old dame in the woods past dark, and now on top of it all she completely vanishes with the staff of traveler, and now as a reader I am hooked. As for "The Black Cat" the title is all you need to know when looking for a point to the supernatural! The story is written so that a black cat is the cause of all the misfortune for the protagonist. If looking for a singular comment that sums it all up, "regards all black cats as witches in desgiuse" as Poe says, should do the trick.
ReplyDeleteAn enigma is defined as a puzzling or inexplicable occurrence. I think that both of these stories clearly have no problem in puzzling us, and can really leave us without an explination. I know that I could not explain Poe or Hawthorne and they puzzle me as well as they possibly could, so I would have no problem referring to them as psychological enigmas...
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ReplyDeletesorry about leaving two comments, I tried to delete one but it says I do not have permission...
ReplyDeleteSophie,
I would not like to agree with your blog, nor disagree with it. I would just like to tell you that you have asked some pretty impressive questions in your blogging, and they are all questions that are true to the authors. I enjoy your comment that they, "take the psychological side of the mind and tear it to fragments." I agree with this very much because this is exactly what "The Black Cat" does to the reader. Towards middle of the story we as readers have really no idea where Poe is trying to go with the story, but as the story reads on it continues to grow more and more bizarre until it actually comes to a point where it makes sense.
Taylor,
I like how you make the point that we read these stories with an "uneasy feeling in our stomach that an evil force is at work." This may be one point I had overlooked in my own blog. I really focused on how these two stories twisted my brain into knots, and how I did not know what to think most of the time. Though, what I did not thnk about was how these two stories could really cause a sense of fear. To some readers these stories could become more of a scare to read than a psychological enigma. This is the two things that tie together to make American Gothic what it really is. They are phsychological enigmas that at some point, may have us hiding in fear of what is really happening in the story...
Mitchell,
ReplyDeleteI agree upon the fact that both of these tales puzzle and confuse us. I also agree that Poe and Hawthorn are geniuses in producing this confusion. But, maybe, that was their plan all along. They wanted to confuse us to bring us into the story and contemplate it. This confusion makes the stories unique whereas they would be dull. The supernatural and devil and witches are not fully known to us as humans. Their expertise in bringing these elements into the story, allowing them to flow shows that they puzzle us. We think and delve deeper as readers which, I believe, was their goal all along.
Taylor,
ReplyDeleteI'm actually responding to your response on my blog. I liked the point you made in your response about how you consume yourself in your mind with getting a good grade. I also do the same thing sometimes with being in control. I feel like I always have to be in control, and the only time I can lose myself is in my writing. I can definitely relate to what you're feeling with the anxiety over getting a good grade, and I actually feel like everyone in this class can relate to that very well.
Mitchell,
I liked what you said about how both of these writers make everything appealing to readers who are not considered "gothic" writers. They make it very interesting and keep the intrigue throughout the whole story. I also agree with what you said about the writer's being enigma's. It is very difficult to explain exactly how these writer's puzzle us. So we simply say that they just do. I think their power to puzzle the masses is what also makes them part of the American Romantic gothic writers.
Edgar Allen Poe and Nathaniel Hawthorn are both extraordinary writers of the American Gothic during American Romanticism. In their works "The Black Cat" and "Young Goodman Brown" they take their readers to a place of dark mystery intertwined with madness and evil.
ReplyDeleteBoth of these works leave us with an eerie feeling. After completing both of these short stories I had to contemplate the reality of them. Could a person really go as mad as Poe's character did in "The Black Cat" and have the insanity to kill ones own wife in a mad fluster of evil? Did Goodman Brown really live in the presence of the devil, and find the evil in those he thought to be good people? I think they are similar in the fact that they make you question this supernatural world that many of us fail to believe in. They also make us contemplate in the evil nature of our own beings. In "The Black Cat" it makes us think are we capable of going crazy such as Poe's character? and in "Young Goodman Brown" are we good enough people to deserve the holiness of heaven? and do we set people up on a higher ledge then they deserve? Both of these stories make us dwell on the goodness of ourselves.
Both authors use colors to represent a deeper meaning in a section of the story. In "The Black Cat" the blackness of the cat represents the dark and evil that the cat bestows on the character. The main characters wife's pink ribbons in "Goodman Brown" represent the purity and happiness of the character. Deep meanings and higher truths such as these also contribute to the story and its classification as American Gothic and American Romanticism.
I also think that both authors are trying to instill fear onto our unconscious minds. This is another detail that supports these two short stories in being in the American Gothic category.
The quote "With this excellent resolve for the future, Goodman Brown felt himself justified in making more haste on his present evil purpose." from "Young Goodman Brown" and the quote "Goaded, by the interference, into a rage more than demoniacal, I withdrew my arm from her grasp and buried the axe in her brain." both show the rashness of the characters decisions. Intuition is a quality of American Romanticism, and they are both clearly shown in this story. The factors of intuition, darkness, Gothic, supernatural, and imagination all add to the Gothic effect of the story.
I think that part of the authors themselves can be considered mad. I don't believe that their entire minds are over taken by madness, but a certain part of their being certainly is to come up with the madness that both of these stories possess.
Ryan,
ReplyDeleteI agree that both of these short stories completely throw us into the characters. Both of these author's have a way to engage our imaginations and senses to feel what they feel, see what they see, think what they think. I think that is one of the true qualities of Romanticism. This kind of engagement that Romantic writers give us cannot be found in those works of Rationalists such as Ben Franklin.
Maura,
I totally agree with you when you said that these stories are hard to follow, but also like you said, not in the sense of understanding. They are difficult to grasp the evil and madness that the characters and authors are possessing because not many of us have that feeling of insanity and madness. We usually try to keep ourselves in control of things and events, but these authors let their imaginations take control.
Edgar Allen Poe and Nathaniel Hawthorne both wrote great pieces of literature that leave us intrigued. The both use examples of supernatural beings and that can leave us scared or it can want to make us read more.
ReplyDeleteEdgar Allen Poe uses the black cat. Even though it is rather obvious, especially because it is the title of the story, the black cat was always considered a sign of bad luck. He even tells us in the story that a cat is a witch in disguise. In the story, the narrator shows us other parts of the cat that are supernatural. One such thing is that it had a white spot on it and it seemed like the spot was changing shapes. The shape it turned into was the shape of the gallows. Gallows were what witches were killed in. That should have been a foreshadowing of what the cat was or was capable of. The narrators hatred for that cat led to his downfall. If he had only remembered the things he knew about black cats, he would have known not to ever disrespect the creature. The cat made everything awful in his life. Also because of the cat, he ended up murdering his wife and going insane. That cat is also the thing that gave him away in the end.
Nathaniel Hawthorne also gave us some crazy supernatural things and foreshadowing. The first thing that shows us something will go wrong is the deep dusk of the forest. This shows us that something terrible is going to happen in the forest and gets us ready to expect it. The next thing was the staff, “…bore the likeness of a great black snake, so curiously wrought that it might almost be seen to twist and wriggle itself like a living serpent.” That also shows us that this man is no good and will lead us to trouble.
I think that the authors can be called psychological enigmas because they make us think beyond what we normally would. The take us outside of the realm of normal and into a supernatural world that they so cleverly write about.
Ryan, great job on the blog. I was very fascinated and some of your points made me think. I never thought about us feeling what the character feels, but now that you say that, I definitely feel it. I also like your closing line. Without these things these stories would never have been written, but that also goes with almost 75% of stories about Halloween or anything. I also agree with wondering if what we see is really true. Stories like this make us think and they are also the things that make us afraid to go outside by ourselves, especially this weekend.
ReplyDeleteSophie, I love your definition of mad. When we hear that a person is mad, we think automatically that they are insane. I like that you point out however that they might simply be braver than us. That is because they are willing to explore the minds of people we find insane and would never want to think like. That should make everyone think about what we consider mad and maybe the definition should be changed.
The Romantic Era was a time of rebirth for literature. At the time when the first pieces of literature were written, there were strict standards that every author followed. It was unheard of for an author to break away from the times and write in such a way that no one had ever dared to before. As the time progressed and new ideas and beliefs were born, the American Romantic period began to unfold.
ReplyDeleteEdgar Allan Poe is a very recognizable name. Almost everyone remembers who he was in different ways. For me, as soon as I hear the name “Poe”, I immediately think of “The Tell-Tale Heart”. I find his writings to be very intriguing, because I love learning and reading about psychological and paranormal events. Poe grabs the attentions of his readers by making them want to learn more and read deeper into the story. “I took from my waistcoat-pocket a pen-knife; opened it, grasped the poor beast by the throat, and deliberately cut one of its eyes from the socket!” This line creates a sense of fear and wonder as to why someone who loved something so much could do such an incredible evil. Poe’s writings seem to leave a sort of gap in which readers must fill in with their own ideas. His stories seem as though they lead to nowhere, but that is the beauty of Poe and his connection with writing.
Nathaniel Hawthorne’s “Young Goodman Brown” adds a deeper side to Gothic writings. He writes in such a way that it is hard for readers to actually create a mental picture as to what is happening. He leaves the story spotty, inviting readers to finish it for him. “Young Goodman Brown” does not have a definite tale to it because so much information is left unstressed. For example, readers can make their own assumptions concerning whether or not Faith was baptized by the devil. Hawthorne does not state either way. The quote by Goodman Brown, “There is no good on earth; and sin is but a name. Come, devil; for to thee is this world given” instills a creepy feeling because readers become frightened that Brown is transformed into a monster.
I consider both Poe and Hawthorne to be the “Gothic Fathers” because they were the first to try something new and dare to be criticized. They can easily be classified as psychological enigmas because they both take imaginations on a journey through the supernatural and mystical worlds. Each and every one of their writings are revered as being uncharacteristic of their times, but also inspirational to later authors who wanted to carry on their writing legacies.
Sophie, I wish you the best of luck on your journey to insanity. I used to think when I was younger upon reading these stories that the writers were insane and almost condemned them for it. Then within the last few years I’ve learned to see that we all have your own sparks of insanity and delusion. We all have our own little quirks. However, or rather, because of this we need to be wary of ourselves. As is evident in books like “An American Tragedy”, our minds can bring about thoughts and plots that we weren’t even aware we could perceive. This can also be seen in real life, Poe died in a ditch after getting drunk. This could have been a desperate attempt to lull the demons of madness that were swimming around in his head from writing his stories. He paid a remarkably heavy price for his work. You said yourself concerning Goodman Brown. “His tomb could be considered his self-suppression into these dark thoughts.” It was dwelling on these facts and thoughts that drove him to craziness. That is why we must be vigilant of materials we read and what we think of because it could open doors that shouldn’t be and possibly might not want to close.
ReplyDeleteMany people believe that the best artists, whether it is music, art, or literature, are the crazy ones; the ones who display absolute insanity. Well, this may appear true with Nathaniel Hawthorn and Edgar Allan Poe because both of these writers created some bizarre pieces of literature. Their writings have caused many to believe that they were complete lunatics. Both The Black Cat, written by Poe, and Young Goodman Brown, written by Hawthorne, include a sense of the supernatural. In Young Goodman Brown, Hawthorne wrote “Thus sped the demoniac on his course, until, quivering among the tress, he saw a red light before him, as when the felled trunks and branches of a clearing have been set on fire, and throw up their lurid blaze against the sky, at the hour of midnight.” This one sentence alone shows the supernatural that Hawthorn includes in his story. It talks about Goodman Brown encountering the gathering of the devil and his followers. It makes the readers want to continue reading, in order to see what will happen to Goodman Brown at the gathering. Poe wrote about the killing of his cat. “The fury of a demon instantly possessed me” was what he said happened before he tore out the eye of his cat. Once again the supernatural draws the readers into the story. In both stories the author creates a sense of fear. The devil in Young Goodman Brown and the behavior of the narrator in The Black Cat were intimidating to me. The supernatural is essential in both of these stories otherwise they would not be as exciting and appealing to the reader. Poe used an incident in his life as the basis of his story, and then added supernatural to it to make it an engaging story. The same with Hawthorne, he used a historical event that many people are informed about, and added supernatural to it to make an interesting and intriguing story. The supernatural confuses the minds of the readers, and makes them want to figure out what is going on. Poe keeps the readers’ attention and interest by revealing that he had bricked the cat into the wall at the end of the story, instead of half way through it. Hawthorne lets the imagination of his readers wonder a more than Poe. Hawthorne does not come out and say exactly what occurred to Goodman Brown. He makes the readers’ minds spin, wondering what Hawthorne actually wants us to think happen to Goodman Brown. Hawthorn and Poe are both definitely puzzling people. Reading their works makes me want to meet them and see what they were really like, not just going off of what people have said about them. Their madness and lunacy is what makes them so well known.
ReplyDeleteSophie,
I really enjoyed how you started your blog. Your right how do we know that we are not the ones who are mad? We think that Hawthorne and Poe are mad because society dictates that they are. This makes me realize that just because society tells us that people are worth less than us does not mean that they really are. It reminds me to not judge others, especially people like Hawthorne and Poe,whom I have not even met before.
Kristin,
I disagree with you when you said that not many of us experience insanity and madness because although we may not reach a serious state of insanity and madness I believe that we all have our own insane behaviors. I would say that the majority of people that I know have at least one insane behavior and/or believe. I feel that those who are willing to commit murder through abortion are insane. Who in their right mind could willingly kill a baby just to make their own life easier?
I know that I already posted two comments, but I could not help but notice an insight that Kristy made.
ReplyDeleteKristy,
You made a very good point about Poe and Hawthorne. Both of them were willing to take a chance and introduce a new genre of writing. If they would not have had the courage to do this they would not be very famous writers, most likely. Both of these writers deserve to be commended for their bravery and ambition. They should be held as inspirations for all of us to not fear the critiques of others. If we allow others opinions affect our decisions then we will never succeed in achieving our dreams.
Kristin, I really liked how you ask the question as to whether or not a person could commit such evil as to kill their own spouse. It seems like it would take a great amount of abhorrence towards the other. Although very unfortunate, there are cases in which a husband will kill his wife just because he is unhappy, or that is just is not in the right frame of mind. I also agree with how you stated the “madness” of the authors. Surely, both Poe and Hawthorne were very intellectual and compassionate people, but with a sense that most people do not possess. In their imaginative thinking skills, they very well could be “mad”, but only use it for entertaining purposes.
ReplyDeleteSophie, I absolutely loved your blog! I really like how you, yourself, grabbed my attention and the attentions of the others in the class. I heard people talking about yours today in school, so I knew I had to read it. What I like the most is how you ask the questions. It makes us think about all the different possible meanings a word can have. How the word is presented in a text can impact what it means in the story. I liked the whole idea of madness because by using it, you actually created your own piece that involves the inputs of others.
Even before we start to read “The Black Cat”, we are immediately thinking of superstition, witches and other supernatural things as soon as we read the title (or at least I did). Black cats are always regarded as evil, so this at once makes you wonder what will happen because of the black cat. Poe is such a good writer that he starts his story with the words “… [this] narrative which I am about to pen, I neither expect nor solicit belief.” He really grabs the reader’s attention and lets you know that something unusual will happen in his story. I believe that this is probably one of Poe’s best writing qualities.
ReplyDeleteThe supernatural is a very good tool to use, because a writer can manipulate anything in his story to create something that isn’t real, but is necessary in his story. If a story is set in a supernatural theme, anything can happen, and still seem real. An example of this could also be seen in art. I heard once that a painter could use any color to paint something, and have it still look beautiful in the end. He could put purple in some trees, or yellow in a mountain range. A photographer does not have this ability - though a photograph can be tinted or recolored, seldom does it ever appeal to a viewer. The supernatural writer is like the painter; the story can be changed to the writer’s fancy, and still be considered great.
We also see this in Nathaniel Hawthorne’s “Young Goodman Brown”. The story starts out with the main character on an “evil purpose” and thinking that “What if the devil himself should be at my very elbow!” The “… dreary road, darkened by all the gloomiest trees in the forest…” also spooks the reader, as no one in their right minds would walk this path, especially after seeing the scary traveler with the “… staff, which bore the likeness of a great black snake…” The reader is most likely screaming in their head to turn around and go back to Faith, but Brown keeps walking into his demise. This creates suspense and draws the reader into the story.
Both the authors could be considered enigmas, as their writings can sometimes be hard to comprehend. It doesn’t help any that they are writing about the human mind, something that even the most brilliant scientists have yet to understand completely.
Elizabeth, I like what you said that “It changes logical thinking that these things do not exist.” These stories make you think “What if…” What if black cats can turn people insane? What if a person could really meet the Devil? What if a person could be baptized by the Devil himself?
Taylor, I really like how you said about whispers, and that it is a feeling of unknown. I think that one of a person’s most innate fears is of the unknown. This is a great concept to put into a Gothic story, as it scares the reader and gets them hooked on the story.
Edgar Allen Poe and Nathaniel Hawthorne were both great writers of the Romantic Period and really kept you wondering what was going to happen next through the entire story. Although, both writers have two completely different styles of writing, they both succeeded the American Romanticism Gothic feel.
ReplyDeleteEdgar Allen Poe made it a point that in a short story you have to be able to set the mood of a story right away in his first paragraph, while it took Hawthorn (I felt) a while to really get the full mood of the story.
Both narrators of the stories that were written by Poe and Hawthorn seem psychologically disturbed in a sense that they cannot relate to reality in a normal way. Poe’s character throughout the short story claims that “he is not mad”, and in Nathaniel Hawthorn’s story about Goodman Brown claims after his experience with the witches and the devil that he “does not know if it was a dream or reality”. Both of these statements give the reader a feel that the narrators are unreliable. The fact that they both do not know the state of their mental sanity can contribute to this.
Also, both stories give the reader a supernatural feel. Black cats, witches, and the devil are all seen throughout history as supernatural. Black cats and witches especially.
I believe that both Edgar Allen Poe and Nathaniel Hawthorne can be psychological enigmas. Hawthorn poses the question through the narrator of the story that Goodman Brown may have been asleep and dreaming during what he thought was reality of meeting witches and the devil. The story never really explains the answer to this question. Edgar Allen Poe is also a psychological enigma. The state of mind that the narrator has in this story, and many of his other works, is unclear. Although the narrator is stating that he is not mad, does not mean that the information given is true. Many people say that the first sign of being psychologically unsettled is claiming that you are fine. And this claim is made in the very start of the story, however torturing a cat and killing his wife, makes us unsure of how to react to these actions.
Stephanie,
I agree on your comment that both Hawthorne and Poe leave us scared and that they want us to keep on reading. I like the point you made in your blog on the fact that black cat with the white spot on it that changed shape and how it appeared into the shape of the gallows. I did not think of this as relating to the witch trials. Not only did this black cat with the gallows show that the narrator of Poe’s story was going to be killed for his murder, but the witches were also killed with the gallows as well.
Taylor,
I agree with your statement that both stories kept you on the edge of your seat. However, I felt more on the edge with Poe’s story than with Hawthorne’s. I also liked the point you made on how both stories portray evil, which I greatly agree with. They both have evil factors to play into the story to really give it a gothic feel.
Linnea,
ReplyDeleteI found your take on the relationship between the writer and the painter to be terribly interesting. Like you said, the writer (like the poet) can change something so small and change the whole piece. Adding different effects or colors, similar to the witches and devil, can change everything about the piece. This is what makes the fine arts so interesting. Any subtle change can create a masterpiece.
I found both of these stories, " The Black Cat," and "Young Goodman brown" terribly intriguing. I personally favor Edgar Allan Poe’s gothic tale a little more appealing. I found that in both stories you mind is incredible. Your mind controls you. This reminds me of a little story. I could not take pills for the longest time and when I was sick, I always made the doctors or my mother give me the liquid medicine. It wasn’t that I couldn’t physically take the pills it was just my mind that told me I would choke and die. I eventually overcame that and can take pills but just this little thing proves that the mind controls everything, even your deepest fears.
ReplyDeleteIn the black cat Poe states “ Upon its head, with red extended mouth and solitary eye of fire, sat the hideous beast whose craft had seduced me into murder, and whose informing voice had consigned me to the hangman.” Often we blame others and things for our mistakes. I know I do sometimes.
“With heaven above and Faith below, I will yet stand firm against the Devil!” For me Hawthorne
was a little harder for me to understand that Edgar Allen Poe but this made me all the more determined. I think that he is saying that even in our darkest hour, no matter how deep we are in or over our heads you can still say no. Theres always a chance.
Dearest Sophie,
I really like how you asked those questions. That reminds me of the word normal? Is anyone really normal? We just made up this category of what we should be but no real person falls into this category. I also like how you pointed out the tomb part. I noticed it but didn’t really take a whole lot to think about it.
Dearest Morgan,
I totally agree with what you said about the writers being almost mad and having maybe a tragic ending only made their works far exceedingly better. I really wish that I could of met these beings. How their minds work, I do not know and maybe do not want to know but all I know is usually sometimes writing a story is best if you have experienced or felt it in some way. How did they write these amazing tales? If these dark feelings lingered in the back of their mind than I surely would of become mad!
Stephanie: I liked your point about the white spot on the second cat, I know when I first read it I thought that the cat only used one of its “9 lives,” and had come back to “get him.” I agree that he did use foreshadowing a lot, like the hanging of the cat and in the end the cat getting him hung (possibly). The authors did a good job of making us think about something differently.
ReplyDeleteDuring the Romantic period, we see many great writers emerge, two of which are Edgar Allen Poe and Nathaniel Hawthorne. In Edgar Allen Poe’s “The Black Cat”, we read about the superstition of an unlucky black cat.
ReplyDeleteThe black cat is dreaded by so may people who have no reason to fear such a tiny creature. I think that one of the greatest things about Poe’s writing is how it is a normal person, your average Joe walking down the street. This man has done nothing in his life that would cause such madness, until we receive the little hints along the way from Poe. “….regarded all black cats as witches in disguise” This foreshadows the supernaturalism that Poe is writing about. Poe’s madness increases in the story and we realize that it was there all along waiting for him to act upon it.
From Nathaniel Hawthorne ‘It was now deep dusk in the forest, and deepest in that part of it where these two were journeying.” This is the most obvious sign of an evil and madness. Evil, from the deep dusk and the forest. Nighttime where no one can see you tells you that something evil is going to happen. The madness comes in when you wonder why would someone in their right mind follow strangers into the woods, when its night? Not many people are quite that trusting. I think that there are two options. Firstly, that he is mad and the whole thing was a hallucination or that he was under a supernatural spell that caused him to become so gullible.
Both stories express the evil, supernatural, and the madness in the world. They certainly have the Gothic effect. We cam not hide from it, when the man in “The Black Cat” did, he snapped, Goodman Brown lived a lonely miserable life. We must try to see the good over the evil. I think that they are considered psychological enigmas. They are both hard to follow but they also give many possibilities for the meanings, such as if Goodman Brown dreamt the whole thing.
Maura,
I loved that you pointed out how the black ca t was blamed for all his misfortune. I truly do not believe in jinxes or curses. I do however think that they are self inflicted and the mind has enough power to cause them to happen if you believe it strongly enough. I agree with you saying the stories are hard to follow but I think they are better that way. It keeps you on your toes for the unexpected endings.
Laira,
Your story helps prove my point just a little bit more. Our mind controls us. I love to think that we only use part of our brain and that has been increasing since the beginning of time. I can only imagine the world in 2000 years from now, how far they will be. We are subjected to craziness in this world that we have to deduce what they mean. If we could only find everything out, tales of superstition that twists the mind would soon follow up Poe and Hawthorne’s stories.
Edgar Allan Poe and Nathaniel Hawthorne both use supernatural elements to play with the human psyche. These stories toy with the human senses by describing events outside of our natural realm.
ReplyDeleteIn “The Black Cat” by Edgar Allan Poe he talks about the superstition that goes along with black cats saying they were all “witches in disguise.” Making this reference to black cats being thought of as supernatural beings, gives the reader more to think about as the story progresses. The narrator seems to be going crazy, but he blames the cat for his troubles. The reference to witches creates an idea that the cat could really be and evil being causing the narrator problems.
Nathaniel Hawthorne makes many references to the supernatural in “Young Goodman Brown” talking about the witch meeting and his dead father beckoning him forward to convert to the devil. One part that stood out to me was when the devil was talking to the converts and said “Evil is the nature of humankind. Evil must be your only happiness.” This is of a supernatural effect because it is the devil’s voice; he is present in the ceremony and talking to the people. This also makes you think. There is truth to the statement, there is a little bit of bad in everything, but you should look at the good in things as opposed to Goodman Brown only seeing the evil in the world.
These stories both make the reader think about what is actually happening. They don’t come right out and tell you what is going on. The reader has to decide for themselves what the story really means. I think that these authors could both be considered psychological enigmas because throughout each of the stories the main character seems to be going crazy. They write of supernatural happenings that are all unknown to us. Both of these stories keep the reader interested by the unexpected out of the ordinary events and situations.
Laira,
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed your story, it really proves a point. It's just like when you're a little kid and whenever you get hurt you want a bandaid whether you really need one or not. You just think that the bandaid will make it feel better even if its not bleeding. It's all mind over matter. I never looked at Hawthorne's story as meaning that there is always hope. It makes sense now that you say it though. The way he refused the devil for the little bit of good that might have been left in his world is inspiring.
Linnea,
ReplyDeleteI love your analogy about that painter, it fits perfectly. Writing about supernatural events gives the author so much more freedom. They are not restricted to writing about things they have seen or heard. There are endless possibilities of the subjects they could write about. I also think you had a good point in saying that the title "The Black Cat" even has a supernatural element. Poe puts this supernatural feel into his story right from the beginning. I think that the effect of these writings being somewhat hard to comprehend is that it makes the reader think. It kind of forces them to become part of the story, rather than to just read it. They have to pay attention to detail and really think about the meaning. This makes the story more memorable in the end in my opinion, plus there's a sense of self accomplishment when you figure out the meaning of a story with a high comprehension level.
Its hard to even begin to imagine the stories of "The Black Cat" and "Young Goodman Brown" without the supernatrual effects. They simply would not be the same. They would not be able to convey the same emotions or questions that they normally do.
ReplyDeleteI think it is the supernatural effects that make the stories what they are. Without them, would readers be left wondering whether the second black cat was the spirit of the first taking its revenge or not? Or would they wonder if Goodman Brown had only been experiencing a dream or if it was actually present out there in the forest where only he knew what was going on.
These supernatural resources build the story up to something that it naturally was not. It gives it a mystic effect and leaves the reader curious just what exactly happened. As stated in Poe's tale, “….regarded all black cats as witches in disguise” The story simply would not be the same if the cat was, say, orange. It was the fact that they could play on the fear and supernatural traits of people that made the story such a success. Even in 'Young Goodman Brown' it is stated "he saw a red light before him, as when the felled trunks and branches of a clearing have been set on fire, and throw up their lurid blaze against the sky, at the hour of midnight.” Maybe had it not been midnight, such an aura of ominous situations would not be apparent. It is plain to see that these spooky aspects are truly what make the stories.
Laura, I think you are absolutely accurate in thinking that both authors play on well known ominous factors to play up the drama in their tales. They make the reader subconsciously notice all the little quirks that make the stories what they are.
Maria, one thing of yours that I never even considered was the main characters going crazy. I was just thinking of brief hallucinations but when you say that it was craziness I see your point. Maybe they had reached a level of stress that they simply snapped. Maybe they were already crazy to begin with. Whatever it was, the idea of them being crazy sounds extremely accurate.
When it comes to Gothic American Romantic literature two of the most widely known authors of all time are Edgar Allen Poe and Nathaniel Hawthorne. They are both amazing authors that really know how to create an immense sense of fear and the supernatural in their writings. They target the psychology of the human mind to find the things that truly scare people.
ReplyDeleteIn The Black Cat by Poe and Young Goodman Brown by Hawthorne, both authors use a large of amount of the supernatural and some of what they used is used or referred to in both stories. In the The Black Cat for instance, the main character’s wife “made frequent allusion to the ancient popular notion, which regarded all black cats as witches in disguise.” Poe hinted here at witches and magic which are both very supernatural things. In Young Goodman Brown, the time period is that of the Salem witch trials and throughout the story there is an air of dark or black magic or witchery happening. In The Black Cat, the cat is sort of referred to as being a “witch in disguise” and at least to the main character is the cause of all his problems, which is a false assumption; however the same thing happened to many women back in the time of the Salem witch trials. Women were falsely accused of being a witch and were killed because of it. They were often hanged just as the black cat was. In the story of Young Goodman Brown, there is a constant sense of evil and that something evil or bad is going to happen at any moment. For example, when Brown meets the man in the dark, creepy forest, Hawthorne really focuses on the man’s staff and writes that it “bore the likeness of a great black snake, so curiously wrought that it might almost be seen to twist and wriggle itself like a living serpent.” Also, when the man touched the old woman with the staff and she screams “The Devil!” and the man says “Then Goody Cloyse knows her old friend?” This is a major reference to the Devil, the source of all evil. This adds an incredibly dark and scary angle to the story from the beginning, really adding to the sense of evil in the story because it alludes to the Devil at least sort of being at work in the story.
Both Edgar Allen Poe and Nathaniel Hawthorne are incredibly skilled writers, both able to really draw in the reader. They really make you feel the fear that the characters are feeling and make you scared of the unknown. They are able to use the supernatural very well to write amazing short stories because they delve into the unknown and make the reader really think, “Could that really happen?” as well as making the reader fear what goes bump in the night.
Elizabeth,
I agree with your opinion on the man’s feelings toward the cat in The Black Cat. The cat did not do anything to wrong the man, it only showed him love and compassion, yet he treats the cat poorly. He then blames the cat for all of his misfortunes, which is exactly what happened too many of the women accused of being witches. They were accused by someone who suffered misfortune who needed someone or something to blame and unfortunately that turned out to be those poor women. Just as the innocent cat was hanged, so were many innocent falsely accused women during the time of the Salem witch trials.
Mitchell,
I like how you said that we are drawn into bizarre and supernatural stories by a force we cannot understand. I agree with you on that completely. While reading Young Goodman Brown especially I found myself wondering what exactly was happening to Brown and what was going to happen and it made me just want to keep reading to find out. I suppose it is a sense of extreme curiosity. Also, I think that when we read a story we develop a sort of relationship with the main character, and through it all we the reader always want to know what is happening to that character because we feel for them. We feel for them because the writer creates feelings that the character feels that we too can feel such as intense fear.